Rector of the University of Vienna: “We Must Prioritize the Safety of Our Jewish Students”

Der Standard, May 18, 2024

German original: https://www.derstandard.at/story/3000000220647/rektor-der-uni-wien-muessen-die-sicherheit-unserer-juedischen-studierenden-in-den-vordergrund-stellenInterview

Interview
Anna Giulia Fink, Oona Kroisleitner

Sebastian Schütze on the pro-Palestinian protests on campus, the rules of the discourse and hardened fronts

There is fierce debate and controversy at universities around the world. The protests for a quick end to the Gaza war began at universities in the USA. They have gradually spread throughout Europe - and have now even spilled over into Austria.

Activists recently camped out on the campus of the University of Vienna for three days to express their solidarity with the Palestinian people. Shortly after they pitched their tents on a meadow in the old general hospital on Alsergrund, hung up their banners and distributed flyers, the University of Vienna distanced itself from the protest. Two days later, the tent camp was cleared by the police.

The University of Vienna is the largest university in the country and has been headed by Sebastian Schütze as Rector since October 2022. It was his second occupation in his short time in office. Two years ago, hundreds of students occupied a lecture hall under the title “Earth is burning” - also on the grounds of the Old General Hospital. They demanded stricter measures in the fight against climate change.

Universities traditionally provide the framework for major social debates. But how much controversy does a university actually have to put up with? When can and when must the university management intervene? Who are the young people who claim to want to support the people in Gaza, but who others say are anti-Semites? In the STANDARD interview, Schütze explains the university's actions. Evictions, the ending of a protest by the university, are always only the “last resort”, he says.

STANDARD: The University of Vienna quickly distanced itself from the pro-Palestine camp. Nevertheless, it continued for a few days. How much protest does a university have to tolerate?

Schütze: A university must allow protest. That's why we always take a look first when something happens: What is it about? Who is involved? In which direction is it going? We did the same in this case. In the beginning, solidarity with Palestine was shown, but then it moved more and more in the direction of the intifada camp. Legitimate criticism of Benjamin Netanyahu's government or calling for solidarity with Palestine is of course fine. But if it goes in a direction that has anti-Semitic undertones, then that is not acceptable. As a university, we have to prioritize the safety of our Jewish students and staff.

STANDARD: The camp was based on the protests in the USA - also in its demands.

Schütze: The situation in the USA is completely different to that in Vienna. That also has something to do with our history. Regardless of that, a critical discussion doesn't start with banning things or, for example, canceling cooperation with Israeli universities or the Erasmus program with Israeli universities, as has been demanded. For me, that is the opposite of diversity of perspective. How do we want to remain in dialog if we no longer talk to each other and no longer ensure that people can see for themselves on the ground or come to us? That's the wrong approach. The call for a boycott of Israeli institutions is also one of the central demands of the BDS movement, which is clearly classified as anti-Semitic in Austria and Germany.

Various groups had called for the occupation of the Vienna campus, including the BDS movement mentioned by Schütze. The “Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions” movement is a loose international association that advocates a boycott of Israeli goods. Der Funke is also said to have been significantly involved in the campaign. The Trotskyist organization is repeatedly criticized for its positions on Israel. Among other things, it has called for an “intifada until victory”.

A group calling itself “Palestine Solidarity Encampment Vienna” raised demands on social media, while “Camp4Palestine” organized the day's programme on site. According to the police, around 100 people, some of them organized, others students or people who sympathized with their positions, followed the call at the beginning on 6 May. In the end, there were still around 40 when the police carried out the eviction on the night of May 9. Prior to this, the security authorities had identified a radicalization at the Altes AKH.

STANDARD: But how does the university actually decide that it has gone too far?

Schütze: Issues like this are highly complex and characterized by a great deal of sensitivity on all sides. That's why we took a close look at the camp. We also followed the international protest that started in the USA and is now taking place throughout Europe. At a university, freedom of expression is a very valuable asset - evicting or ending a protest can only ever be the last resort.

STANDARD: Where do you see the limits of freedom of expression at university?

Schütze: For me, the limits are reached when the freedom of one person comes into conflict with the rights and freedoms of others. We have a very open space for discourse at the university, which we want to maintain. However, this requires rules. For me, these are no longer respected when freedom of expression is used for positions that are openly racist, openly anti-Semitic, openly glorifying violence; or for positions that argue directly against the foundations of our democracy. It should be possible for us to have objective, fact-based discussions - even on controversial topics.

The worldwide demonstrations against the Israeli military operation in Gaza began immediately after it started. People also took to the streets in Austrian cities to demonstrate against Israel's reaction to the massacre by the terrorist organization Hamas on 7 October.

Universities soon became the centers of these demonstrations - especially those in the USA. From mid-April, tents were set up at Columbia University and Harvard, rooms were stormed and halls occupied. This was followed by the University of Amsterdam, the Science Po in Paris, the Technical University of Berlin and the British University of Oxford - to name just a few examples. And finally: Vienna.

However, the University of Vienna is not the first university in Austria to be affected by the issue. At the end of last year, a video made the rounds that was recorded by the representative body of Jewish students in Austria (Jüdische österreichische Hochschüler:innen, JöH) as part of a protest action. It showed a speaker calling for the Hamas attack to no longer be mentioned: It had never happened. The filming JöH president Alon Ishay was urged to leave. He stayed. In the end, he had a “constructive conversation” there, Ishay said later. The art university distanced itself and condemned the “completely unacceptable” scenes.

STANDARD: Why are these debates erupting like this at universities?

Schütze: Traditionally, there has always been a lot of space and freedom for discussion at universities. That's right, and it will stay that way. The responsibility is great, we are fully aware of that.

STANDARD: In other countries, debates at universities are much more radical than in Austria. Are you worried that this “culture war”, as it is called in the USA and Germany, for example, will also become tougher in Vienna?

Schütze: We have done a lot to ensure that it is possible to talk to each other in a reasonable way and that this hardening of fronts, which then culminates in a so-called culture war, does not occur. It must be the aspiration of a university to find common ground in discussions, even when there are opposing positions. That is the responsibility of the university and also of those who study or teach here.

STANDARD: What can universities do to counter the growing radicalization?

Schütze: Even a university does not exist in a vacuum. We operate within a larger discourse space that we can only influence to a limited extent. What we can do is work within the university to ensure that positions are discussed with objective arguments and that it is also allowed if someone has a different opinion. However, especially with the war in the Gaza Strip and criticism of Israel, we can see that this radicalization is taking place. We are therefore considering which formats are suitable for enabling dialog at the university.

The slogans that were already written on posters in other cities were also found on the banners in Vienna. Among other things, Israeli warfare was criticized and a ceasefire was called for. Many banners accused Israel of “genocide” - and the University of Vienna of “complicity” due to its cooperation with Israeli educational institutions. According to most international law experts, the accusation of systematic genocide is unfounded. In its response to South Africa's complaint, the International Court of Justice also did not declare genocide to be plausible, but that the Palestinians were entitled to protection from genocide.

Photos of banners with the inscription “Student Intifada Camp” also circulated on Twitter. The term “intifada” refers to the Palestinian uprisings against Israel that began in 1987 - initially against soldiers - and led to a wave of terrorist attacks against civilians from 2000 onwards. Since then, Hamas has repeatedly called for a new intifada - even after October 7.

Some condemn the protests against the Gaza war as an expression of hatred of Jews. Others see this as an attempt to discredit these voices. The fronts are hardening. However, this has not only been happening since the war in the Middle East flared up again. Opinions are already strongly divided on climate change, gender issues and measures in the fight against the coronavirus pandemic. Is this also dividing society?

STANDARD: What role do universities play in the overall social discourse and in the political structure?

Schütze: First of all, politicians are responsible for politics - this is a discourse space that is fundamentally different from ours. We have two different tasks with partly similar responsibilities and, if all goes well, similar intentions. For example, the university sees itself as having a very strong responsibility to promote democracy. But a university or academia has lost out if it gets involved in day-to-day business or allows itself to be taken over by certain political tendencies.

STANDARD: To what extent is it the task of a university to uphold and promote the rules of democracy?

Schütze: That is one of the central tasks of the university. Academically trained people contribute more knowledge and often also more commitment to civil society discussions, for example. This strengthens a democratic system. Education is one of the cornerstones of democracy and the preservation of democracy. This also includes a certain culture of discussion. However, this is becoming increasingly difficult in the wider political discourse. It is becoming more and more populist, less about the exchange of factual arguments and more about ideologies and confrontation. We will do everything we can to ensure that factual discussion can take place here, even on controversial topics, and hope that this will serve as a model for society.

A space of knowledge, fruitful exchange and progress - that is one view of the universities and the debates that students and lecturers conduct there. Another assessment is that the issues that universities, as well as the arts and cultural sector, deal with are increasingly elitist and unrealistic.

STANDARD: How great is the discrepancy between what is discussed at universities and what the general public is interested in?

Schütze: The two sides are not congruent and never will be. Nevertheless, universities make an important contribution to society - even with things that are not always immediately obvious what they are good for. It's about forming theories, developing new methods and discussing alternatives. One of the fundamental principles of science is I put forward a hypothesis in order to verify or falsify it. Falsifying it is also an important result because it makes the next step possible. Innovation and progress are based on this.

STANDARD: In the natural sciences, however, this process is often more comprehensible than in the humanities and social sciences.

Schütze: Let me give you an example: one of our major future topics that affects everyone is artificial intelligence. It is wrong to assume that it is enough to deal with the technology or the algorithms behind it. We also need to look at the ethical and legal issues that arise. We will not be able to tackle the topic without a social science perspective. And that applies to a great many topics. The same applies to climate change, for example.

STANDARD: Climate change, corona or genetic engineering, for example, are also topics where scientific skepticism is clearly evident.

Schütze: The debate about scientific scepticism must be conducted in a differentiated manner. It is true that it has increased or at least become more visible. But a large proportion of the population has also seen what science can achieve - for example in the fight against the coronavirus pandemic. However, it is sometimes difficult to convey that it is part of the DNA of science to change your mind based on new findings.

Most of the courtyards on campus are now closed overnight due to “disruption and damage”. At least for the time being, this is to remain the case. The large courtyard where the demonstration took place and where several pubs are located will remain open. More security personnel are now patrolling there. (Anna Giulia Fink, Oona Kroisleitner, 18.5.2024)

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